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Вот это кокер!

Victor.T: быстрота

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balance1: старикан пишет: Так там всё видно - ногами. Так фазан вроде имеет привычку уворачиваться от бегущей собаки(даже резиновый) ,так что должны мимо проскакивать или там фазан антидепресантами обдолбаный?

Victor.T: Нашел! Трайлы по фазану в октябре будут проходить в Волгоградской области.

Женя_центнер: А их правила и положение можно увидеть?

miha: FAV, давайте по теме. Не надо переходить на личности. У каждого своя точка зрения. И каждый имеет право её иметь.

FAV: miha пишет: FAV, давайте по теме. Не надо переходить на личности. У каждого своя точка зрения. И каждый имеет право её иметь. Договорились. Давайте иметь и аргументировать, ОК? А не просто собаки плохие и все тут.

miha: Но ведь не видно из ролика работы с чутьём . Просто вытапывание , беготня. Я уже писал : 1.топтание ;2. стрельба шумовых; 3.повторные команды(свистки). То что увидел, то и говорю. Разве я что то придумал?

старикан: miha пишет: FAV, давайте по теме. Да там по теме сказать то нечего. Если только мантры повторять " в англии всё самое лучшее... вы не хрена не понимаете... поезжайте на трайл..."

miha: старикан, ну пусть обоснуют. Без нервов и обиняков. А то базар получается.

Aksen64: К вопросу о поиске, ветре, челноке. USING THE WIND by Cheryl Sligar One of the most important factors in hunting or field competition is the use of the wind. The natural hunting ability of the dog is essential in finding game, and no one set pattern will apply to all conditions. In the early 1980’s, when my husband Jerry and I first started to train our springers for hunting, we were fortunate to train with a group of “old timers” who knew the value of a natural hunting style. They always stressed how important using the wind was and it was drilled into our heads to make sure we were not causing the dogs to deviate from their natural pattern. As a field trial judge, I want to see an intelligent dog; one that uses the wind to its best advantage for the sole purpose of finding birds. The dog is of more value using its natural abilities to find the bird, rather than bumping it just because it is running in a “windshield wiper pattern”. Of course this particular pattern is the one of choice in a headwind. As the dog matures, it will learn how to use the other winds by adjusting its pattern accordingly. To help the dog through this learning process, the handler must understand where the dogs need to be to scent the game, and use gentle guidance to accomplish this. When training a young dog, working in a headwind is most prudent. This will help instill the flatter pattern and build confidence in the young dog. As the dog matures, introduction to other types of wind conditions with whistle commands at the right moment, will help most dogs learn to make adjustments naturally. Often, I have noticed in a trial that an inexperienced handler may blow the whistle to turn the dog, or to pull the dog in closer, not realizing that the dog is trying to use the wind. This may chop the pattern up, causing the dog to leave an area on the course and pass a bird. In optimal conditions, using the wind properly is the most efficient way to find birds on the course. http://www.westwingsess.com/images/HW.gif The flat pattern of the headwind can work when the field has uniform cover and terrain, but in many hunting or trial situations, the terrain may vary. Sometimes hills and berms will affect the shifting of the winds. In many areas of the country, the wind is always swirling, gently changing directions quite frequently. The experienced dog will learn how to adapt to the conditions and the handler must recognize what is happening. So as not to be too confusing, let’s talk about basics for optimal conditions. There are three basic winds: headwind, downwind, crosswind; and then there are variations; crossing downwind and crossing headwind. Once again, the headwind pattern is the easiest wind and the best wind to start a young dog, and it should be the choice of any hunter whenever possible. Remember, the dog must stay within gun range. Quartering 15 to 20 yards to the right or the left of the handler is usually the rule of thumb, ranging slightly less in front of the handler. Of course, scenting conditions can tighten the dog up, but you do not want the dog to “punch up” the center of the field. When the dog turns, it should turn into the wind, not back toward the handler. This puts the dog in the best position to find game in front of the dog and shooter. http://www.westwingsess.com/images/DW.gif The following diagram is of the classic downwind pattern, but to be honest, I very seldom see this in a trial. I find that most dogs run a modified figure eight pattern or the less popular “oval” pattern. Just remember that the dog ranges out further ahead, sometimes as far as 20 or 30 yards, and works back toward the handler with the wind now in the dog's face, not leaving any holes. http://www.westwingsess.com/images/CW.gif The crosswind patterns vary quite a bit, and personally were the hardest for me to understand when first learning. The concept is the same. The dog will put his body perpendicular to the wind, after taking the downwind side a little deeper than the upwind side. The pattern may look more like an hourglass rather than a figure eight. Again, the dog must put himself in the position to smell the bird. Try to visualize where the bird is in this diagram, and where the dog will be when he gets the slightest hint of scent cone. In a crosswind, the upwind side can be cut short, as the dog will be able to scent the bird, even if the bird is beyond the normal patterning distance on the upwind side. http://www.westwingsess.com/images/CHW.gif The two variations, crossing headwind and crossing downwind, have the dogs running at a slight angle. Once again, in any downwind, the dog will work further away from you and will turn its body toward the wind. There is nothing more spectacular than watching your spaniel master this type of wind and finding all the birds on its course. I have noticed over the years that different dogs have their own preferences for choosing an acceptable pattern. Maybe it’s genetic. You can guide them somewhat, but if they prefer an oval when hunting in a downwind that’s ok. Once your dog learns how to use the wind, it will become an important asset to you, not just for finding birds that are on the course, but also blind falls or long downwind and crosswind retrieves. Running a slightly flatter pattern may be the way to go when you are hunting, as it keeps the dogs close, and winding game from a long distance is not what you might want, especially if you are hunting alone. In hunting tests or field trials, Mother Nature doesn’t always cooperate, and courses can be set up in any wind direction. The wind direction can also change naturally after the course has been set. In either case, you want to make sure your dog is working the proper wind pattern to create the best advantage to find game. And in a trial, you want the dog to scent game from a respectable distance, not when it is on top of it. Good luck and good hunting!

Aksen64: Извините схемы к статье не открываются. И не знаю как поправить. А прямой ссылки на статью не нашел.

balance1: старикан пишет:  цитата: Так там всё видно - ногами. Так фазан вроде имеет привычку уворачиваться (убегать) от бегущей собаки(даже резиновый) ,так что должны мимо, без чутья, проскакивать или там фазан антидепресантами обдолбаный?

kvas059: Без нервов и обиняков Пост №675 (АСС Финно Сэм. Чемпионат 2012). Ролик, отметки времени 1мин57", 2,58", 3,22". Эти птицы подняты экспертами или зрителями. Между стрелками. Напуск одиночный? Три пропущенные птицы в полосе поиска. Собака аттестована, получила Diplom of Merit (http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/3803). Если бы поиск пошире - результат был бы другим. Интересно ознакомиться с точкой зрения уважаемого FAV.

FAV: Про ролики: покажите ролик где видно работу с чутьем у РОСа, например. ( хотя мне очень не хочется сравнивать РОСов со спрингерами чтобы не задевать лишний раз Ваших собак) А то - работы не видно. Так покажите где видно. Пропусков птицы нет? Нет. Так кто тогда сказал что собаки безчутые? Шумовых стреляют как на охоте. какие аргументы Вам нужны? Подача идеальна, остановка безупречна, никто не орет. Что еще не так?

SWHC: kvas059 пишет: Пост №675 (АСС Финно Сэм. Чемпионат 2012). Ролик, отметки времени 1мин57", 2,58", 3,22". Эти птицы подняты экспертами или зрителями. Между стрелками. Напуск одиночный? На трайлах не бывает одиночных напусков. В полосе поиска у финно пропусков не было, иначе был бы снят. На 1 мин 57 секунде птица взлетает в полосе поиска другой собаки например, которая идет справа.

kvas059: Aksen64 пишет: не знаю как поправить Игорь, попробуй здесь: http://www.gundogsonline.com/Article/using-the-wind-dog-training-Page1.htm

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